Talk:Victory title

A twentieth century example of a "victory title" is "Lawrence of Arabia"

• No, because that's just an informal geographical reference, he was given no actual title, and Arabia wasn't a political unit at all (a major part of his problem!), nor the precise site of a specific victorious battle. Fastifex 11:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

What about Montgomery of Alamein? Lisiate 05:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

• That is an excellent addition, as he was given a formal peerage title in chief of a victory site which never was a fief: Viscount Montgomery of Alamein. Thanks for the tip, I'll greedily enter it! There probably are more British cases - please keep them coming (either here or in the article if you're sure it fits) if you think of other titles.Fastifex 11:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if the Victory Title should really be translated as "the Dacian" or "the Briton". To make an adjective out of a Latin noun might result in an adjective the meaning of which is something more like "of or pertaining to Dacia". These people were not in any sense "becoming" Dacians; they had a particular relationship to the countries they conquered (if in fact they really conquered anybody and the title was not just a polite legislative fiction concocted by friends of theirs in the Senate) and that was commemorated with the triumph/title. I think it might be more accurate not to translate at all and just keep it "Africanus". I like "Creticus" in particular, which was a joke about Mark Antony's father, who had managed to screw up so dramatically on campaign in Crete that he was popularly awarded the mocking title.Tonyodysseus 22:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Baron Birdwood of Anzac

I had always assumed this territorial designation referred to Anzac Cove rather than to the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. I suppose there's no reason why it couldn't refer to the military unit though - there are plenty of baronetcies where the designation is "of the Navy" or "of the Army". Does anyone have a source as to which might have been intended? Opera hat (talk) 20:25, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

According to Birdwood himself, 'Anzac' refers to the place - 'Anzac' at Gallipoli. The Anzac sector included, but took in much more than, Anzac Cove itself. 'To my surprise, towards the end of December 1937, I had a letter from the Prime Minister, Mr. Neville Chamberlain, informing me that he proposed to submit my name to the King for the honour of a peerage in the New Year's Gazette. He wrote extremely nicely, saying that my services to the country had not been confined to those rendered in the Great War, and expressing the hope that I would accept. After consideration I did accept, taking the title of Baron Birdwood of Anzac and Totnes, in the County of Devon. Incidentally, there was some little doubt as to whether there was in fact any such place as 'Anzac,' but on my producing my war-maps it was decided that the title would pass muster." . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.169.26 (talk) 07:45, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Baron Birdwood of Anzac and of Totnes

The 'Anzac' designation in Birdwood's title refers to the Anzac sector at Gallipoli, of which Anzac Cove itself is a small part. There were three operational sectors at Gallipoli as far as the allies were concerned: Anzac, Helles and Suvla. Common usage was, when referring to the army corps, to name it 'the A&NZAC' or 'the ANZAC.' Grammar and usage were obviously much more respected then; nobody ever wrote, for example, 'ANZACs' to refer to the soldiers: they were universally referred to as 'Anzacs.' The holiday was 'Anzac Day.' The cove was 'Anzac Cove' and so on. There are literally tens of thousands of examples of this in original documents and contemporary sources. The fully-capitalised 'ANZAC,' always referred to the Army Corps only, unless, of course, it appeared at the beginning of sentence when it was common practice to fully-capitalise the first word or two, or in a heading, or in military writing, when all place-names were often fully-capitalised. There would have been no confusion as to the origin of 'Anzac' in Birdwood's title when it was granted because people had not yet begun to misuse the word Anzac by insisting it always be fully-capitalised. Hayaman 22:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hayaman (talk • contribs)

what about MacDonald?

Hi

Where to put Étienne Jacques Joseph Alexandre MacDonald, 1st duke of Taranto? Does his title count as a victory one? There was no battle of Taranto but on the other hand there was no fief so it was honorific.

Proteus (Talk) 13:59, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

There was a fief: Taranto in the Napoleonic Kingdom of Naples. See Nobility of the First French Empire which has a list of duchés grands-fiefs. Opera hat (talk) 05:13, 13 April 2012 (UTC)